The Eternal General - 04/24 - Unpinned but alive; Atlas/Monsters nowhere in sight; Slash 'Orgy of the Damned' next month

[Richard Watterson]

Catcher in the rye ...the demo...shits and I mean SHITS ALL OVER ANY PINK FLOYD OR ROLLING DICK RIDER STONES.

It's a beaut.

 

As you were.

[Slugworth]

42 minutes ago, Bray Rd Beast said:

Catcher in the rye ...the demo...shits and I mean SHITS ALL OVER ANY PINK FLOYD OR ROLLING DICK RIDER STONES.

It's a beaut.

 

As you were.

Yeah that's a good song but it's not even a wart on the ass of a mid-late 70s Floyd deep cut.

 

As you were.

 

 

 

Exhibit number one.

[wasted]

2 hours ago, Slugworth said:

 

What really sold it back in the day was those song titles...

 

Chinese Democracy

Atlas Shrugged

Catcher In The Rye

 

Surely such song titles would be attached to Pink Floyd level epics!

 

 

 

 

 

1994.

 

A case can be made that the saga's roots are that summer with the firing of Gilby, Huge entering the fold, the SFTD fiasco, and the rejection of the Snakepit demos which causes Slash to go solo while Axl starts twiddling his thumbs doing absolutely nothing until he thinks up a cool title for a record.

 

 

 

 

He's so happy about these songs getting released, he's talked about it a grand total of zero times.

 

 

That laughter led to Axl spinning his wheels for 20 years.

 

The joke was on them.

 

 

 

 

So happy about it they never promote any of it.

 

I'd hate to see em mad or sad about these releases.

 

 

U2 has like 3 scrapped albums over the years.

Happy as a multinational conglomerate can get without ruining everyone's lives, a Best of is a tried n tested least amount of risk and effort release. New kitchen, honey. They or whatever universal consciousness decides seem to put out as many Best of as they can Live era, GH, 2 box sets and then hesitate 3 times about 1 album of new material.
 

The only narrative I can see about Axl is he wanted to release the material, but was foiled by either not being able to finish the songs well enough or the record company refusing to having anything to do with non Slash products.  
 

Axl is pictured running and laughing in the Perhaps video and 20 years later released The General. You could say these are just chips they are cashing in to keep the touring going. But why use such difficult cards when a few basic hard rock songs from Slash's solo heap would rock the boat less. The General is a whole untested genre for GNR tackling child abuse. There has to be some kind of desire on Axl's part to release it. Then to play it at the Hollywood Bowl. Nobody is really forcing them. To me it's the counter point to releasing box sets. 

[Slugworth]

21 minutes ago, wasted said:

Happy as a multinational conglomerate can get without ruining everyone's lives, a Best of is a tried n tested least amount of risk and effort release. New kitchen, honey. They or whatever universal consciousness decides seem to put out as many Best of as they can Live era, GH, 2 box sets and then hesitate 3 times about 1 album of new material.

 

I used to be shocked by the fact the label didn't capitalize on the reunion and release a Best of/GH 2 in 2016.

 

That thing would've flew off the shelves that summer and streamed a fuck ton.

 

I finally realized they did the right thing. They saw the GNR operation for what it was and knew to not bother wasting time or money on a new release.

 

The only thing Axl/GNR truly care about is AFD, and GNR had started pushing GH...a compilation they had previously wanted fans to boycott.

 

This keeps everything simple. AFD and GH...fuck.all the rest.

 

They made a huge mistake.with that AFD box. That never deserved a green light at that price.

 

The UYI set.. although cheaper..an even bigger waste. They buried the band's best release since 1991 (Ritz) on a box set that was never mentioned again.

 

 

Other than trying to get some promo for declining ticket sales, the drip feed of singles makes little sense.

 

It's not leading to anything.

 

This all would've turned out better had there not been nannies and pool boys steering the ship.

 

 

[Guest The Monkey]

I just watched to the Eagles documentary. It’s obvious that’s what Azoff had in mind for GnR and he was right but Axl did it in his lazy low effort way. 
 

But The Eagles provided the template. Reunion tour but new songs and more songs later and that gets rolled into a new Very Best Of. 
 

If the reunion happened in 2008, we would have the best of both worlds. CD stuff maybe retaining Finck and Slash and Duff paving the way for a hybrid operation. Also what 2006 should’ve been.

[wasted]

1 hour ago, Slugworth said:

 

I used to be shocked by the fact the label didn't capitalize on the reunion and release a Best of/GH 2 in 2016.

 

That thing would've flew off the shelves that summer and streamed a fuck ton.

 

I finally realized they did the right thing. They saw the GNR operation for what it was and knew to not bother wasting time or money on a new release.

 

The only thing Axl/GNR truly care about is AFD, and GNR had started pushing GH...a compilation they had previously wanted fans to boycott.

 

This keeps everything simple. AFD and GH...fuck.all the rest.

 

They made a huge mistake.with that AFD box. That never deserved a green light at that price.

 

The UYI set.. although cheaper..an even bigger waste. They buried the band's best release since 1991 (Ritz) on a box set that was never mentioned again.

 

 

Other than trying to get some promo for declining ticket sales, the drip feed of singles makes little sense.

 

It's not leading to anything.

 

This all would've turned out better had there not been nannies and pool boys steering the ship.

 

 

They seem to be just selling more of the cds all rready released and fond a new way to release the same stuff at a higher price point.
 

On Apple Music I got AFD and UYI re-released with extra bonus discs of rarities or live versions. The band were probably more into it than another GH. 

 

But a 2 disc Best of is something most bands have. A Early Days / Later Days double cd. So maybe these last 5 -6 songs go on that on disc 2. All the Easy and Brownstones on Disc 1. 
 

GNR are in a minefield so they take few steps to see if it's safe. Then move up. There's no incentive to release a full album because that can get blown up. Fans meltdown over The General, I wonder what a whole album might do. 
 

I feel we are half way through an album. 6 songs pretty much confirmed. By 2030 could have another 6. Do they need to release it as an album? 

[wasted]

5 minutes ago, Monkey said:

I just watched to the Eagles documentary. It’s obvious that’s what Azoff had in mind for GnR and he was right but Axl did it in his lazy low effort way. 
 

But The Eagles provided the template. Reunion tour but new songs and more songs later and that gets rolled into a new Very Best Of. 
 

If the reunion happened in 2008, we would have the best of both worlds. CD stuff maybe retaining Finck and Slash and Duff paving the way for a hybrid operation. Also what 2006 should’ve been.

When Hell Freezes Over / Not in this Lifetime

 

As usual GNR went against the grain and did everything on their own terms. The industry wanted them to do what they are doing now in 2008. Now they are but without all the people who tried to force them. 
 

It's like GNR sabotage themselves to free themselves from the industry regulations and control. 

[wasted]

3 hours ago, Bray Rd Beast said:

Catcher in the rye ...the demo...shits and I mean SHITS ALL OVER ANY PINK FLOYD OR ROLLING DICK RIDER STONES.

It's a beaut.

 

As you were.

It's crazy that Paul Huge is writing songs that get mentioned with the likes of Jaggers, Waters or whoever is in Pink Floyd. 

[Guest The Monkey]

35 minutes ago, wasted said:

GNR are in a minefield so they take few steps to see if it's safe. Then move up.

The most dangerous band in the world.

 

And I would bet the record company focus tested the songs back in 2008 and largely released things accordingly.

[Slugworth]

15 minutes ago, wasted said:

But a 2 disc Best of is something most bands have. A Early Days / Later Days double cd. So maybe these last 5 -6 songs go on that on disc 2. All the Easy and Brownstones on Disc 1. 

We've reached the point where the small discography bites them on the ass.

 

This isn't the Stones or Floyd...it can't be broken down into specific eras to capitalize on.

 

There's one era...and a nightmare dream season no one but 500 hardcores care about.

 

Even they know this, which is why ALL promo (what little there is) revolves around Axl, Slash, and Duff.

 

21st century GNR painted them into an even smaller corner thanks to Axl's never ending "Appetite for Destruction disguised as Chinese Democracy" tours.

 

I mentioned it before in one of these threads but here's the discography at this late stage...

 

LLAS - No one knows or cares. Hardcores pay hundreds for fakes on eBay

 

AFD - The big enchilada. The top dog. The head cheese.

 

Lies - Nobody cares. Patience is on GH.

 

UYI -  Nobody cares anymore. NR and YCBM on GH.

 

TSI - Less than nobody cares.

 

SFTD - Anyone not laughing can hear it as the outro to GH.

 

Live Era - An abomination.

 

GH - Everyone including your grandparents own this.

 

It's an incredibly weak discography from a standpoint of potential best of, GH, anniversary/deluxe, and box sets.

 

Yeah they could milk a two disc Best of out of it with a pretty good track list. It starts getting dicey after that. They could technically do a Lies or TSI set of some sort but how many copies will that sell when there's AFD and UYI sets rotting in warehouses?

 

The discography has been completely mismanaged thanks to incompetence.

 

I find it funny, ironic, whatever...that the Axl of 30 years ago wanted to "bury" AFD but wound up wallowing and groveling in it for so long it wound up being the only album of his that matters.

 

 

 

 

 

[wasted]

4 minutes ago, Monkey said:

The most dangerous band in the world.

 

And I would bet the record company focus tested the songs back in 2008 and largely released things accordingly.

The most secret double undercover intel is who chose the songs for CD. 
 

Were they the only ones finished with Bumble that were viable. 
 

Surely if Best Buy were choosing Perhaps and Hard School would replace Shackler's and Riad. 

[wasted]

46 minutes ago, Slugworth said:

We've reached the point where the small discography bites them on the ass.

 

This isn't the Stones or Floyd...it can't be broken down into specific eras to capitalize on.

 

There's one era...and a nightmare dream season no one but 500 hardcores care about.

 

Even they know this, which is why ALL promo (what little there is) revolves around Axl, Slash, and Duff.

 

21st century GNR painted them into an even smaller corner thanks to Axl's never ending "Appetite for Destruction disguised as Chinese Democracy" tours.

 

I mentioned it before in one of these threads but here's the discography at this late stage...

 

LLAS - No one knows or cares. Hardcores pay hundreds for fakes on eBay

 

AFD - The big enchilada. The top dog. The head cheese.

 

Lies - Nobody cares. Patience is on GH.

 

UYI -  Nobody cares anymore. NR and YCBM on GH.

 

TSI - Less than nobody cares.

 

SFTD - Anyone not laughing can hear it as the outro to GH.

 

Live Era - An abomination.

 

GH - Everyone including your grandparents own this.

 

It's an incredibly weak discography from a standpoint of potential best of, GH, anniversary/deluxe, and box sets.

 

Yeah they could milk a two disc Best of out of it with a pretty good track list. It starts getting dicey after that. They could technically do a Lies or TSI set of some sort but how many copies will that sell when there's AFD and UYI sets rotting in warehouses?

 

The discography has been completely mismanaged thanks to incompetence.

 

I find it funny, ironic, whatever...that the Axl of 30 years ago wanted to "bury" AFD but wound up wallowing and groveling in it for so long it wound up being the only album of his that matters.

 

 

 

 

 

I feel like the intention or goal of burying AFD was correct for UYI. After they broke up, Axl had to tap in the CD era songs and build trust in the audience live shows. This is GNR, not a nu metal puppet show. You will enjoy the show. 
 

You make people care by mixing hits with overlooked material. Stones have done this. 
 

I think because the GH doesn't have the classic and Live era is Live songs like Easy and Nightrain, Coma , Reckless is another viable package. 
 

Reckless Life - The Very Best of Guns N Roses

 

1. Reckless Life

2. It's So Easy

3. Brownstone

4. Nightrain

5. Paradise City

6. Rocket Queen

7. Dust N Bones

8. You Could Be Mine

9. Double Talkin jive

10. Bad Obsession

11. Pretty Tied Up

12. November Rain

13. Estranged

14. Coma

 

Disc 2. 
 

1. Welcome to the Jungle

2. Hard Skool

3. Absurd

4. Perhaps

5. Locomotive

6. There Was a Time

7. Catcher in the Rye

8. Chinese Democracy
9. 14 Years

10. Monsters

11. Atlas Shrugged

12. Better

13. Madagascar
14. Breakdown

 

They might mix it up. Zepp Remasters were very chronological. 
 

Disc 2 might be 5 CD songs , 5 HS era. Maybe even OMG. 
 

Estranged, Rocket, Nightrain, Coma should be on a Best of package. 
 

Easy and Brownstone are more important than SOYL or SIDHU. 
 

Might have to invent longer cds too. UYI songs are long. 

[Slugworth]

8 minutes ago, wasted said:

You make people care by mixing hits with overlooked material. Stones have done this. 
 

Which is why the perfect time for a 2 disc Best of was summer 2016.

 

They were finally performing deep cuts dormant for decades to crowds that didn't even know them.

 

We've heard over the years how when a song like Locomotive or Coma gets played, they'll hear someone in the crowd ask if it's a new song. That's ridiculous at this stage.

 

Have you seen the Spotify stats? It's a complete nosedive after the few big hits.

 

They don't have any respect for their own discography.

 

You did a good job covering all the bases on that track list but you're probably covering one too many bases.

 

Axl's ego will probably require at least 1-2 CD era tracks but it actually doesn't need any of them.

 

The meat and potatoes is 87-91...post 93 is the overcooked brownie for dessert.

 

Jungle

It's So Easy

Nightrain

Out To Get Me

Brownstone

Paradise City

Sweet Child O Mine

Rocket Queen

KOHD (live at the Marquee)

Whole Lotta Rosie

Reckless Life

Move to the City 

Patience

You're Crazy

 

 

Civil War

YCBM

Dust N Bones

DC

LALD

DTJ

NR

The Garden

Coma

Yesterdays

Pretty Tied Up

Locomotive

Estranged

Ain't It Fun

 

That's about as deep as you can go with including the required songs. Disc 2 would allow some wiggle room if necessary but AFD is gonna have to dominate disc 1.

 

Include a bonus disc for 21st century GNR.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

[EstrangedTWAT]

I've seen GNR 6 times between 2002 and 2023.

 

At all of those shows, with all the line-up changes, the only constant was that TWELVE songs were played at each and every one of those shows.  The 12 inescapable absolute "must play" songs.

 

Welcome to the Jungle

Sweet Child O' Mine

Paradise City

Mr. Brownstone

It's So Easy

Nightrain

Rocket Queen

November Rain

You Could Be Mine

Live and Let Die

Knockin' On Heaven's Door

Chinese Democracy

 

 

What's the one that stands out like a sore thumb?  The one song that nobody wants, that a majority of the audience doesn't even know, and is only there because of Axl's mule-like stubborn insistence?

 

Rocket Queen should never be on that list either, but these days it provides a good 8 minutes or so for Axl to suck oxygen side-stage, so I guess it stays.

 

Surprised Patience gets rotated in and out these days.  That's one of the biggest radio staples.

[Slugworth]

7 minutes ago, EstrangedTWAT said:

I've seen GNR 6 times between 2002 and 2023.

 

At all of those shows, with all the line-up changes, the only constant was that TWELVE songs were played at each and every one of those shows.  The 12 inescapable absolute "must play" songs.

 

Welcome to the Jungle

Sweet Child O' Mine

Paradise City

Mr. Brownstone

It's So Easy

Nightrain

Rocket Queen

November Rain

You Could Be Mine

Live and Let Die

Knockin' On Heaven's Door

Chinese Democracy

 

 

What's the one that stands out like a sore thumb?  The one song that nobody wants, that a majority of the audience doesn't even know, and is only there because of Axl's mule-like stubborn insistence?

 

Rocket Queen should never be on that list either, but these days it provides a good 8 minutes or so for Axl to suck oxygen side-stage, so I guess it stays.

 

Surprised Patience gets rotated in and out these days.  That's one of the biggest radio staples.

Yeah it's embarrassing.

 

They're the only major act where the show has to be completely dominated by their debut album.

 

Even in the so called "moving on" years of 2001-2, 10 songs from AFD were being performed every night.

 

I actually really like the CD title track but agree that it's non essential at this stage of the game.

 

If they ever reach the point where they ditch the 3 hour shows, which they probably will on the next tour, we're gonna see all that Chinese stuff removed.

 

If he has to choose between AFD songs and CD, he always goes with AFD. ALWAYS.

 

The song I was always surprised wasn't a staple is Don't Cry.

[Guest]

generalposting will never die

[EstrangedTWAT]

Yeah I was shocked Don't Cry wasn't on the list as far back as 2001.

 

Crazy to think it was only brought back cause Bumblefoot kinda forced it in 2007.

 

He was playing fucking "Think About You" every night instead of Don't Cry!

[wasted]

1 hour ago, Slugworth said:

Which is why the perfect time for a 2 disc Best of was summer 2016.

 

They were finally performing deep cuts dormant for decades to crowds that didn't even know them.

 

We've heard over the years how when a song like Locomotive or Coma gets played, they'll hear someone in the crowd ask if it's a new song. That's ridiculous at this stage.

 

Have you seen the Spotify stats? It's a complete nosedive after the few big hits.

 

They don't have any respect for their own discography.

 

You did a good job covering all the bases on that track list but you're probably covering one too many bases.

 

Axl's ego will probably require at least 1-2 CD era tracks but it actually doesn't need any of them.

 

The meat and potatoes is 87-91...post 93 is the overcooked brownie for dessert.

 

Jungle

It's So Easy

Nightrain

Out To Get Me

Brownstone

Paradise City

Sweet Child O Mine

Rocket Queen

KOHD (live at the Marquee)

Whole Lotta Rosie

Reckless Life

Move to the City 

Patience

You're Crazy

 

 

Civil War

YCBM

Dust N Bones

DC

LALD

DTJ

NR

The Garden

Coma

Yesterdays

Pretty Tied Up

Locomotive

Estranged

Ain't It Fun

 

That's about as deep as you can go with including the required songs. Disc 2 would allow some wiggle room if necessary but AFD is gonna have to dominate disc 1.

 

Include a bonus disc for 21st century GNR.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

I've noticed Bests ofs are used to repackage or re present material. So if the current music climate is pop, Stones put out a Best of full of disco mid era songs. 
 

Also, the live shows with GNR maybe hint at what songs they like now. Coma and Estranged have to be on a Best of. So does half AFD, if not more. 
 

A way to establish Chi dem, Better, TWAT is to include them on disc 2. Then you have the New songs with Slash. HS and Perhaps. 
 

But you want it to be fully BBQ friendly. And the industry hos will be happy about Disc 1. And ok with most disc 2. 
 

Funding, marketing, distributing a new album is distant second behind printing money off sure things like GNR classics.

 

The MO is Profit off the past, avoid releasing new album. A Best of does both. 

[wasted]

1 minute ago, EstrangedTWAT said:

Yeah I was shocked Don't Cry wasn't on the list as far back as 2001.

 

Crazy to think it was only brought back cause Bumblefoot kinda forced it in 2007.

They still rotate it with Patience like it's an album track. It's one of the bigger hits. 
 

 

[MAGATRON]

Think About You was one of their best songs live on the 2002 Tour with Buckethead.

[Gordon Comstock]

2 hours ago, Slugworth said:

We've reached the point where the small discography bites them on the ass.

 

This isn't the Stones or Floyd...it can't be broken down into specific eras to capitalize on.

 

There's one era...and a nightmare dream season no one but 500 hardcores care about.

 

Even they know this, which is why ALL promo (what little there is) revolves around Axl, Slash, and Duff.

 

21st century GNR painted them into an even smaller corner thanks to Axl's never ending "Appetite for Destruction disguised as Chinese Democracy" tours.

 

I mentioned it before in one of these threads but here's the discography at this late stage...

 

LLAS - No one knows or cares. Hardcores pay hundreds for fakes on eBay

 

AFD - The big enchilada. The top dog. The head cheese.

 

Lies - Nobody cares. Patience is on GH.

 

UYI -  Nobody cares anymore. NR and YCBM on GH.

 

TSI - Less than nobody cares.

 

SFTD - Anyone not laughing can hear it as the outro to GH.

 

Live Era - An abomination.

 

GH - Everyone including your grandparents own this.

 

It's an incredibly weak discography from a standpoint of potential best of, GH, anniversary/deluxe, and box sets.

 

Yeah they could milk a two disc Best of out of it with a pretty good track list. It starts getting dicey after that. They could technically do a Lies or TSI set of some sort but how many copies will that sell when there's AFD and UYI sets rotting in warehouses?

 

The discography has been completely mismanaged thanks to incompetence.

 

I find it funny, ironic, whatever...that the Axl of 30 years ago wanted to "bury" AFD but wound up wallowing and groveling in it for so long it wound up being the only album of his that matters.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Or they've reached the point where they double (or triple? quadruple?) dip on the classics. Live Era: AFD box set, throw 3-4 live shows in an over priced box and tour it for a few years. Casual fans get Ritz 88 'the best show ever, that MTV played all the time' in HD and maybe they throw in something like Giants Stadium 88 or Cathouse 89 for a few more sales. It's minimal work for the band and label and generates more press/sales than a new single.

 

Do the same for UYI, maybe a CD era set with Vegas or London 2012 and a random 2006 show. By that time they'll be able to milk the NITL nostalgia, for the low price of $700 we'll get Live Era: '16-17 with mini lithograph replicas and personalized bestiality-themed texts from Fernando.

[EstrangedTWAT]

8 minutes ago, wasted said:

They still rotate it with Patience like it's an album track. It's one of the bigger hits. 
 

 

 

I saw Patience at 5 of the 6 shows.

 

Don't Cry at 4 of my 6 shows.

 

But the twelve listed above at EVERY show.

 

No way CD or Rocket Queen, or even It's So Easy/Brownstone/Nightrain were bigger hits with the general public than Patience and Don't Cry.  It's curious.

[wasted]

42 minutes ago, EstrangedTWAT said:

I've seen GNR 6 times between 2002 and 2023.

 

At all of those shows, with all the line-up changes, the only constant was that TWELVE songs were played at each and every one of those shows.  The 12 inescapable absolute "must play" songs.

 

Welcome to the Jungle

Sweet Child O' Mine

Paradise City

Mr. Brownstone

It's So Easy

Nightrain

Rocket Queen

November Rain

You Could Be Mine

Live and Let Die

Knockin' On Heaven's Door

Chinese Democracy

 

 

What's the one that stands out like a sore thumb?  The one song that nobody wants, that a majority of the audience doesn't even know, and is only there because of Axl's mule-like stubborn insistence?

 

Rocket Queen should never be on that list either, but these days it provides a good 8 minutes or so for Axl to suck oxygen side-stage, so I guess it stays.

 

Surprised Patience gets rotated in and out these days.  That's one of the biggest radio staples.

It might the type of song DC, Patience, Sorry are - there's only so many slow ones they can do. DC chorus is pretty hard. 
 

Theres def 9 bona fide GNR hits. 2 of which are covers. Joe Rogan was like remember GNR, Live n Let Die? 
Jungle, Scom, PC, Patience, Ycbm, DC, NR, HD, LALD - the hits. 
 

Estranged is creeping to join the 9. 
 

Easy, Brownstone, Nightrain all equivalent to hits. 
 

Those are non negotiable in the live set or any Best of. 

[EstrangedTWAT]

2 minutes ago, Gordon Comstock said:

 

 we'll get Live Era: '16-17 with mini lithograph replicas and personalized bestiality-themed texts from Fernando.

 

 

 

I fucking LOVE the lithographs!  One of my favorite things about the current band, hands down.

[wasted]

Play AFD all the way through live. Then end with some UYI hits. 
 

Megadeth used to Rust in Peace live.